SDCC 2012 | Jensen interview

[galathea]

I just saw this Jensen interview from SDCC, where he talks about Dean’s unforgiving attitude towards Castiel, and it resonated deeply with my own take on the Dean-Castiel relationship, so I was delighted to see Jensen’s similar thoughts on the subject. I wrote up a transcript of it. No worries, there are no spoilers for S8.



Question: "Why has Dean such a hard time forgiving Cas, whereas he forgave Sam for a similar betrayal?"

Jensen: "I think the easy answer is blood; the easy answer is family. Even though, if there was a family in this show, it would include Bobby, it would include Cas. It would include these kind of broken, war-torn heroes that we’ve come to know. Bobby even has that famous line, you know, family doesn’t just end with blood. But I think the short answer is, he (Sam) is his brother, and there might be grudges held between them, but at the end of the day that’s the closest he has to a companion – and has had as a companion for many years. I think with Cas, it’s unnatural. He’s an angel, he’s not human. I think that Dean relating to somebody like that is tricky. You know, it’s related to monsters, related to anything supernatural. His brother is flesh and blood, it’s tangible, and he can touch that."

There are two things I love about Jensen’s answer. Firstly, I love that he refers to Sam as Dean’s companion. I think it’s a wonderful word for everything Sam encompasses for Dean – not just a brother, not just a hunting partner, but someone who accompanies him through this life, a constant, something solid. ♥ Secondly, I love that Jensen points out Dean’s difficulties to relate to someone who is not human. It’s something I feel has always been a factor in Dean’s relationship with Castiel, and for me Dean’s various attempts to 'humanise' the angel speak volumes about his comfort-level (or lack thereof) where his friendship with him is concerned. Dean’s deeply ingrained mistrust and hatred of the supernatural affected even his relationship with Sam at times, so I think it’s natural that he has a hard time looking past Castiel’s otherworldly nature. Now, for Dean to overcome these feeling to form a friendship with Castiel in the first place is remarkable in itself though and should not be underestimated, I just don’t think it could ever be on the same level as his relationship with Sam (or Bobby, for that matter). And that's especially true ever since Castiel betrayed him, because basically the angel proved Dean's every negative preconception about supernatural creatures right.

Comments

[llywela13.livejournal.com]

Aww, that's a nice little snippet of interview. :)

[galathea-snb.livejournal.com]

It is. I always love it when the actors have intelligent things about their character's motivation to say.

[maenad.livejournal.com]

Oh, that's nice. I generally avoid actor interviews because they're so often disappointing.

I like tangible myself, because Dean has always seemed to be disturbed with and annoyed by things that somehow aren't real. They've never seen Castiel's real face (and never can), he shifts from corporeal to incorporeal with scarcely a thought and his identity is hugely changeable, depending as much on who he's currently following as it does on what he really thinks. One thing I like about season six is the way they look at the twin problems of Sam and Castiel - that the air of unreality about Sam in the first half of the season is so obviously unnatural for him.

[galathea-snb.livejournal.com]

The SPN cast is great, you'll rarely be disappointed when they start talking about their characters. They are very insightful, especially in one-on-one interviews with intelligent questions.

Yeah, the tangible also reminds me of the fact that Dean is a very sensory person. He always needs to touch or taste things - often things he really, really, shouldn't - as if he can learn them through sensory perception. He also often touches Sam casually, something he never does with Castiel, which I also attribute to his otherworldly nature.

[maenad.livejournal.com]

Thank you. I tend to wander through the early spoiler summaries, because there's no way my will is strong enough to last four months, but skip interviews and things. Now, suddenly, there's this whole other tempting reservoir of stuff. :)

Yes, Dean cheerfully eating the spell ingredients will never cease to amuse me. I've always liked that aspect to his character, and how it ties into his repeated assertions that they can only believe in what they can see and discover for themselves. I liked the way that tied into his differentiating between earthly pain and the pain of the afterlife for Sam, and I think it ties beautifully into the difference between their relationship and how he reacts to Castiel. We always see Sam bleed and suffer for his mistakes - all that screaming from withdrawal, and the punishing way he pushes himself to atone - but Castiel can, and as often as not does, simply pop out of the scene, or just become someone else entirely.

Er. And I may be rambling. Sorry. :)

[galathea-snb.livejournal.com]

Ah, rambling is always okay with me! :)

I wished I could resist spoilers better. They have a tendency to throw my hiatus tranquility into disarray.

I liked the way that tied into his differentiating between earthly pain and the pain of the afterlife for Sam
Oh, I didn't make that connection, but yes, that makes perfect sense, now that you mention it.

[bowtrunckle.livejournal.com]

I liked the choice of "companion" was very enlightening, too. That's the first time JA has used that word to describe Sam (unless he did it in an SPN Mag article or one of the more recent season companion guides). It's esp. appropriate in light of the fact Sam and Dean are soul mates as per "Dark Side of the Moon".

I just don’t think it could ever be on the same level as his relationship with Sam (or Bobby, for that matter). And that's especially true ever since Castiel betrayed him, because basically the angel proved Dean's every negative preconception about supernatural creatures right.

I think having Dean react differently to Cas's betrayal gives emotional texture to his character, the story, and the relationships between the characters. It makes it interesting as it should be bec. fictional characters have just as much right to be unpredictable and complex as real people. I can't think of anything more boring, lazy, or unsatisfying than to have Dean respond to Cas in the same way he responded to Sam's mistakes. Sometimes I think questions like that can *sometimes* come from a fannish confrontational place where people see things as either/or or better/worse than.

[galathea-snb.livejournal.com]

No, I think it's the first time that Jensen uses that term. I read the magazines and companions and it never came up before. And yes, it resonates with the soulmates idea, but it takes the romantic connotations of the term 'soulmate' out of the equation and that makes it even more perfect. :)

I can't think of anything more boring, lazy, or unsatisfying than to have Dean respond to Cas in the same way he responded to Sam's mistakes
The thing is, I don't actually think Dean reacts THAT differently to Castiel's betrayal than to Sam's. Man, he was pissed after Sam's betrayal and even though they found a functioning work dynamic pretty fast, Dean didn't really forgive Sam on a personal level before Point of No Return. For Dean, that's a pretty long time to hold a grudge, especially against Sam. The main difference between Castiel and Sam is that Sam was at Dean's side, every day, working hard to get into his brother's good graces again and giving Dean the opportunity to confront Sam with his hurt and disappointment. Castiel, on the other hand, was first dead, then amnesic and then 'crazy', robbing Dean of the chance to confront Castiel with his feelings of hurt, anger and betrayal. Add to that Castiel's refusal to actively help cleaning up the mess he left behind, and it makes perfect sense to me that he would have a hard time forgiving Castiel.

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

Aww, I like that quote :) And really the people acting like Dean *had* to forgive Castiel to be fair after he forgave Sam is just bizarre to me when they were such different situations.

[galathea-snb.livejournal.com]

I agree. It's true that there are a lot of parallels between Castiel's betrayal and Sam's betrayal, but there are also a hell of a lot of differences between their stories. I am sorry to say it, but Castiel hasn't redeemed himself yet and I find Dean's continuous hostility towards the angel absolutely justified.

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

I always figured that anyone hurting Dean's little brother would be a deal-breaker for him, especially when Cas knew how important it was to keep those memories of hell walled off. I agree that it's a totally separate thing from the personal crap that Sam and Dean had to work through over Ruby

[galathea-snb.livejournal.com]

Yes, Castiel's attempt on Sam's life - and that's what it was, he knew for a fact that Sam could die when he destroyed the wall - is an absolute no-go in Dean's book. There are other differences, too. When Sam made his 'deal' with Ruby, he was a drunken wreck, mad with grief and survivor's guilt, but when Castiel made his deal with Crowley, he was of a sound mind. When Dean finds out about Sam's activities with Ruby, Sam compromises. He gives it all up and tries it Dean's way and only if that doesn't work, he resumes his activities with Ruby. Castiel, on the other hand, flat out refuses to even listen to Dean's attempts to reach out to him, he never even considers Dean's proposal to work together, he just demands subordination. Sam always used his powers for good, even Cindy's sacrifice was done with the intention to save the world. Soul-empowered Castiel goes on a killing spree of massive proportions out of petty disappointement with his father. Overall, the situations are so very different, and I feel that, added together, Castiel's transgressions are so much more grave than Sam's. It boggles my mind that so many people feel that Castiel's actions can be handwaved somehow.

Sorry for the ramble, lol.