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Review for 4x10 'Heaven And Hell'
It’s the first time since S1 that Kripke wrote a script in the middle of the season (he stuck with writing the season openers and the finales over the last couple of years), so I had high expectations for this episode, because I usually love his writing, but unfortunately I can’t say that my expectations for Heaven And Hell were met. I had a lot of problems with the episode, some of them more related to general concerns, others derived from the plot itself, hence my review starts off with a short general section and then continues with the actual episode review. So, here we go!
Okay, I have to get some general thoughts about Sam and Dean's character arcs so far off my chest first, and now is as good a time as any. So, please feel free to just skip the next five paragraphs, because they are not directly aimed towards the episode itself. I brought up a couple of the following points in earlier reviews already, but they were reinforced by this week’s episode.
The way this season dealt - or better not dealt - with the consequences of Dean’s stay in hell is a massive disappointment for me, and I feel that the whole storyline of Dean’s death was cheapened, if Dean’s confession in Heaven And Hell was the climax of it. After Dean admitted in Wishful Thinking that he remembers hell, I hoped that we subsequently get at least some signs of Dean slowly being eroded from the inside out, suffering from his memories, struggling to keep on going, but there wasn’t any more strain on his character visible than before. Apparently we are indeed meant to believe that Dean remembered hell all along and just deceived Sam (and us) the whole time, and that just doesn’t work for me.
Dean went to hell for his brother. He suffered through the subjective equivalent of 30 years of torture. He broke under the pressure and pain and became a torturer himself. And he comes back from that and all he has is nightmares? Dean admitted that the torture broke him and nobody lives with these kind of memories and is as calm, confident and well adjusted as Dean was all season. For all intents and purposes Dean should have been a complete wreck after this experience and I find it hard to accept on behalf of Dean’s character that the writers seem willing to just sweep these consequences under the rug.
It’s the first time in the show that I feel detached from Dean’s storyline as a result of how his story was told. In S1 we caught glimpses of Dean’s vulnerability beneath his cockiness, in S2 we saw Dean messed up and buckling under his burdens, in S3 Jensen was allowed to show that Dean’s carefree attitude was a mask he wore for his brother’s sake, and this emotional build-up always resulted in a cathartic breakdown for Dean as a logical consequence. In S4 this emotional build-up to Dean’s struggle was practically non-existent and the bits we did get (nightmares, sleeping problems) were not consistent with the magnitude of what happened to him. So, Dean’s confession in Whishful Thinking and his subsequent breakdown in Heaven And Hell had no anchor in his characterisation up to that point. We are told that Dean was suffering, but it wasn't shown, and that’s a huge flaw in this particular storyline for me.
As a matter of fact, I feel that Dean’s time in hell had a deeper impact on Sam’s storyline than on Dean’s so far, and maybe that's why I feel more connected to Sam this season. For the first time ever since S1, Sam’s storyline flows more smoothly than Dean’s for me, despite the fact that most episodes this season were from Dean’s point of view. Sam’s initial detachment from his brother, his guardedness around Dean and his gradual reacceptance and rebonding with his sibling, combined with his struggle with his powers and his growing independence, made for a compelling and mostly consistent development of his character. We were allowed to have insight in Sam’s changes right from the start and even if we didn’t know his whole story, it was easy to read his character from his behaviour, which made I Know What You Did Last Summer such a satisfying experience. I am very grateful for that, because I felt Sam was neglected over the last 2 seasons, but I would have preferred if for once both character arcs were equally well developed.
I know my expectation of Dean’s storyline for this season was formed by Kripke’s statement that Dean will be a prisoner of war coming home from his worst nightmare, unable to reconnect to his former life, because of his horrific experiences, and we have seen nothing of the sorts and that left me disoriented. Pre-formed expectations are surely a problem, but I don’t doubt that I would have felt the same way about Dean’s development this season without them. At the ChicagoCon last weekend it was revealed that Kripke assumed S4 will be the last season of Supernatural and therefore moved the mytharc forward quickly, in order to be able to wrap the story up with the S4 finale and maybe Dean’s story got lost in the demands of the bigger picture. Whatever the reason why this plot was handled the way it was, it leaves me a tad disillusioned. I assume, I will get over my disappointment sooner or later, obviously depending to a degree on how the season will move on from this point.
Anyway, putting all these thoughts aside, I’ll turn to the review for Heaven And Hell now and try to analyse it with a more open mindset:
This midseason two-parter was obviously all about building parallels. The parallels between Sam and Dean, Ruby and Anna, demons and angels. Both Sam and Dean lived through hell without each other and hit their darkest hour while being separated. Both committed acts out of desperation that put them down on the road to becoming evil, Sam by using his demon blood, Dean by participating in the torture of souls, and those memories haunt them to the present day. Both Ruby and Anna are different from other demons or angels, both banned from their own kind out of their own volition for breaking the rules and siding with humans. Both demons and angels act on faith alone, just as demons have never seen Lucifer (Sin City), angels have never seen God. The barriers between good and evil seem to disintegrate more and more, leaving one huge grey area.
Now, while I am a big fan of the parallels in the show, and I do love the ones they build-up in with this two-parter, Heaven And Hell as an episode in itself had too many characters and plotlines crammed into it and didn’t manage to explore them with the care they deserved and consequentially lost focus of the brothers, especially Dean. The episode felt rushed to me and didn’t provide enough room to deal with Dean’s hell-related fears and secrets in a satisfactory manner. Dean’s storyline was touched upon in various scenes, but overall it was buried in the plot around Anna, the angels and the demons. As a result, I felt an emotional disconnect from Dean’s storyarc when the final scene came around and it was only salvaged by Jensen’s outstanding acting and his ability to pull the viewer into Dean’s frame of mind. Last week’s episode managed to stay focused on Sam’s storyline despite all other plot elements, and I just wished they had delivered something similar for Dean.
Sam: "Dude! Reality. Porn."
Dean: "You call this reality?"
With Sam and Dean being busy fighting off heaven and hell, there was obviously not a lot of time for meaningful Sam and Dean interaction throughout the episode, but it still held some poignant moments of their brotherly bond. I loved Sam’s instant murderous reaction to the angel’s threat of throwing Dean back into hell, willing to kill the angels before he allows them to lay hand on his brother. ♥ Dean’s baffled expression at Sam’s readiness to act out against the very creatures he considered a sign of salvation not long ago was priceless. His brother's safety tops God and angels any day for Sam and since we saw how losing Dean destroyed Sam, his reaction spoke as much of self-preservation as of love.
Sam’s position of 'my brother first, the rest of the world later' was mirrored in Dean’s decision to sell out Anna to the angels in exchange for Sam’s life, and while it may have been part of the larger plan to bring the angels and demons together, there’s still a true sentiment behind that decision. ♥ Uriel was right in his assessment that it only needs the right pressure to break someone and in Dean’s case that weak point is Sam, always has been and always will be. I have to admit that I always expected that part of Dean’s torture in hell would be centered around Sam, knowing that it would inflict the most psychological pain on him and provided the easiest way to break Dean’s will. I wonder if Dean would have held out for 30 years if they had used Sam against him instead of physical torture.
Another poignant affirmation of how deeply Sam and Dean reconnected over the last couple of episodes was shown in Sam’s unhesitating refusal of allowing Ruby to manipulate him into using his powers again. It’s clear that in their last confrontation Sam was no match for Alistair, but Ruby’s words insinuated that Sam could defeat him, if he took his powers a step further. Sam turns her down though and I think that’s a result of Dean’s returning influence over him. Dean stopped being completely hostile when it comes to Sam’s powers and Sam in return allowed his brother back in, even willing to trust him with the darkness that consumed Sam over the summer. I love that Dean reciprocated Sam’s trust in the end by opening up to him about his time in hell.
Anna: "Every emotion, Dean, even the bad ones. It’s why I fell. It’s why I’d give anything no to have to go back. Anything."
Dean: "Feelings are overrated, if you ask me."
I liked the way Dean bonded with Anna and how the episode used Anna’s appreciation for life, human emotions and sensual experiences to mirror and at the same time contrast Dean’s own attitude. On the one hand, Dean’s own zest for life and the enjoyment he usually draws from little things, like sex, food or riding in his car with his brother at his side, was reflected in Anna’s wish to exchange the numb existence of an angel for humanity. On the other hand, Dean carries the burden of feeling too much, the things he experienced in hell weighing him down, making him wish for not being able to feel anything at all and that’s reflected in his appreciation for the detachment of the angel’s existence.
Their mutual frustration over unknowable fathers, who demand obedience without questioning, who are closed off and inaccessible to their children, forcing them on the road constantly, while they long for a home, was poignant and believable as well. Anna’s feeling that she doesn’t deserve to be saved, because she disobeyed and failed God by committing the biggest crime imaginable for her kind, resonated with Dean’s own feelings of guilt for committing acts in hell he finds unforgivable. Dean never deemed himself worthy to be saved in the first place, how much worse must he feel with the burden of his guilt. Dean’s broken admission that he won’t, can’t talk about hell was heart-wrenching and I loved Anna’s insistence that he needs to forgive himself and gently tried to push Dean into confiding with his brother and accept his comfort. ♥
These parallels between Anna and Dean were drawn very nicely and lead to a real connection between the characters, so it wasn’t surprising that it translated into a romantic relationship. The sex scene between Anna and Dean was obviously set up as a contrast to Sam and Ruby’s scene last week, a tender, gentle and life affirming act, based on mutual affection, where Sam and Ruby were desperate, rough and destructive. While the scene itself bordered on too soppy for my tastes, it was bearable, until they completely ruined it with the cheesy Titanic shout-out at the end, i.e. Anna's hand hitting the foggy window. While I assume that it was meant to be tongue-in-cheek, it just really pushed the whole scene over the edge for me.
Sam: "Anna is an innocent girl."
Castiel: "She is far from innocent!"
As a general idea, I loved that Anna turned out to be an angel who had fallen in order to become human. Her basic storyline reminded me of one of my favourite german movies Wings Of Desire, which, sadly, was made into the incredibly cheesy and boring american remake City Of Angels. Anyway, Wings Of Desire is about the angels Damiel and Cassiel, who walk amongst humankind, invisible, observing, unable to directly interfere with people’s lives but capable to provide comfort and courage to people who suffer. When Damiel falls in love with a trapeze artist, he decides to trade his immortality for humanity to experience the full range of human emotions and sensuality. The tragic of these characters of course lies in the fact that there’s no going back and that they have to live with being fallen from God’s grace forever. It’s a very poetic movie and so I had very positive associations to that twist in Anna’s story.
Unfortunately the potential beauty of the storyline was tainted for me by Kripke’s ridiculously corny idea to translate the angel’s fall into meteors, magical trees and mystical pregnancies, when there wasn’t really any need for these kind of far-fetched plot points. Anna could’ve been adopted or simply exist, without forcing a completely human background. Also, the fact that fallen angels can return to their angelic status by reuniting with their 'grace', just cheapens the gravity of the choice to fall in the first place. And the less said about the idea of angelic grace in bottles, the better. The whole grace plotline really made me cringe and a simpler approach to Anna’s back story would have serviced her character a lot better in my opinion.
As a side-effect, Anna’s story also unnecessarily complicated the mytharc as it becomes less and less clear, where to draw a line. Anna is a fallen angel and she became human. Lucifer is a fallen angel as well, but since he hated humans, it’s hardly imaginable that he fell by ripping out his grace and become a human. So, was Lucifer’s fall different? And if it was, why? Also, Anna mentions that angels have no free will, but her own choice to fall and become human refutes her words. At the moment I am not sure if they opened a can of worms here, that sooner or later will tangle up the mytharc in inconsistencies. While it’s probably intended to blur the lines, I personally would prefer a clearer distinction, because if everything is grey, choices and alliances become too random for my tastes.
Lastly, I hoped that the angel plot of this two-parter would move the Winchester plot forward, in terms of revealing (or at least giving new clues) what Sam and Dean’s roles are in the bigger scheme of things. But we are none the wiser why the angels rescued Dean, if he has a specific task beyond taking care of Sam or why he was being tested by God a couple of weeks back. I just prefer the angel storyline to be rooted in Sam and Dean and Heaven And Hell lost sight of that connection for me.
Dean: "Where’s your boss?"
Uriel: "Castiel? He’s not here. You see, he has this weakness. He likes you."
Despite the problems I had with Anna’s overall story, I still think the angel storyline is pretty strong and that’s mostly the merit of Castiel and Uriel, who continue to fascinate me. It doesn’t hurt either that both are portrayed by excellent actors, who believably sell their characters. Anyway, Uriel and Castiel’s different attitudes are interesting. Uriel obviously has nothing but contempt for humans and is bordering on blasphemy. He enjoys physical violence as much as smiting, leaving no doubt that in his mind humankind needs to be put in its place. In the light of Dean’s admission that he tortured souls in hell, Uriel’s mistrust towards him becomes a new edge, as it must be humiliating for him to accept orders from a human, who has fallen that far. Dean siding with a fallen angel and a demon certainly doesn’t help matters where Uriel is concerned.
Castiel on the other hand has a more compassionate nature, not only towards humankind but also towards Anna, as his genuine regret about being ordered to kill her clearly shows. Similarly, despite knowing what Dean had done in hell, Castiel feels for Dean’s struggles, appreciates him as a person and doesn’t resent to follow Dean’s lead as long as it doesn’t stand in conflict with God’s orders. The doubts and questions Castiel expressed at the end of It’s The Great Pumpkin, Sam Winchester showed in his less forceful approach to Dean and Anna, especially if compared to Uriel. It just makes me wonder if Castiel, just like Anna, would be willing to disobey and take the fall himself, should the doubts ever become too overwhelming.
Alistair: "A demon protecting an angel? We really must revoke your membership."
Ruby: "Look, I know I am not employee of the month, but this, I never wanted to get in the middle of this."
I won’t go much into Ruby, since I already elaborated on my opinion about her in my review about last week’s episode, only so much, her continuous help for the boys does nothing to alleviate my suspicions towards her overall goals. I actually hoped that she would sell out the Winchesters when she met Alistair or that we would at least gain new insight in her, since it was one of the few scenes where she actually interacts with someone other than the boys. The fact that we can’t take anything she says to Sam and Dean at face value, makes it so hard to read her and this would have been a good opportunity to show her from a different angle. Alas, since her meeting with Alistair was a ploy, we didn’t really learn anything new about her.
While the scene with Alistair torturing Ruby felt contrived, I think it was meant to illustrate what Dean is talking about, when he refers to enduring and applying torture in hell later. Although personally I didn’t really need the visual reminder and would have preferred if they went without that scene. In any case, I wonder why a demon as powerful as Alistair, who proved to be invulnerable not only to demon killing devices but also to angels, would choose to follow Lilith instead of taking over the leading position himself. For all that we hear about Lilith’s power, she remains suspiciously absent and her absence is easily interpreted as avoidance and cowardice.
Dean: "How I feel? This, inside me. I wish I couldn’t feel anything, Sammy. I wish I couldn’t feel a damn thing."
Last but not least, a look at the most important scene of this episode. First off, the set-up for Dean’s confession scene was beautiful, very reminiscent of Children Shouldn’t Play With Dead Things, with the Impala by the roadside and both brothers on the hood of the car. Dean often puts some distance between himself and Sam, when he is about to reveal his feelings and thoughts to him, by crossing to the other side of the room or taking some steps back, a habit that he doesn’t seem to be aware of. Sometimes Sam bridges the distance and comes to sit beside his brother, offering comfort by proximity, sometimes he gives his brother his space. This time though, Dean decides to stay very close to Sam, his back nearly touching Sam’s side, deliberately seeking the physical presence of his brother, despite the fact that he is turned away from Sam to make it easier for him to talk. I just found this observation very heart-warming amidst all the tragedy, since it deviates from their usual pattern and conveys a closeness that was needed in this scene.
I loved that Sam learned his lesson and stopped pushing his brother, waiting until Dean was ready to open up to him, reining in his own need for knowledge to give his brother time to come around on his own terms. ♥ Sam’s silent acceptance of Dean’s confession and his open grief and shock at learning the extent of what Dean had to go through in hell, just added to the emotionality of the scene. While Sam’s few words of reassurance were heartfelt, he knows that Dean isn’t ready to forgive himself at the moment for what he perceives as his guilt or even to accept comfort. Sam revealed his own darkest hours to his brother just a short while ago and just like Dean didn’t judge or condemn him, Sam finds no guilt in his brother for breaking under the torture in hell.
Back after It’s The Great Pumpkin, Sam Winchester, I predicted the scenario that Dean wasn’t only a victim in hell, but has also become a perpetrator and I was right. There’s a certain logic in the fact that becoming a demon doesn’t only involve suffering pain, but also inflicting it, that to commit inhuman acts results in losing your own humanity. That Dean isn’t able to forgive himself for what he has done is understandable. Not only did he dedicate his life to saving others, he also never had anything but contempt for the thought of becoming a monster by choice. I have no doubt that in Dean’s own mindset he made that choice to turn into a monster, when he accepted Alistair’s offer to escape his own pain by inflicting it on others. I am not sure if Dean will ever be able to forgive himself for giving into the temptation and can only hope that he is able to learn to live with it.
As mentioned earlier, this twist in Dean’s story, opens up a significant parallel between Sam and Dean, as both of them made choices that ultimately would have cost them their humanity, only on different routes and under different circumstances. Dean was saved by divine intervention, Sam’s salvation might lie in his brother’s love. In the light of Dean’s memories about his own road to evil, his fierce reaction to Sam using his powers earlier this season gains a new level of meaning as well, as his rejection was additionally fuelled by self-loathing. Still, it also allows Sam and Dean to relate to each other better and maybe in accepting and forgiving their brother’s darkness lies the key to overcome their own. ♥
Jensen once again knocked this scene out of the park and managed to draw me into Dean’s pain, despite my reservations while watching the rest of the episode, and Jared’s subtle reactions in the background supported the scene beautifully. Kudos!
What else was noteworthy:
(1) Sometimes it’s really small details that annoy the hell out of me, like Dean helping up Ruby after their first confrontation with the angels, without checking on Sam, who has been taken out by Castiel. Dean never does that, he always makes sure Sam is okay first thing. I really can’t see why he would suddenly care for Ruby’s physical well-being, especially when he is totally unconcerned later, when Ruby shows up hurt after being tortured. That just doesn’t add up. In any case, he may try to make nice with Ruby for Sam’s sake, but it would be an automatic response for him to look after Sam first when he is down.
(2) Pamela’s return was one of the highlights of the episode and I was delighted to see that her experience hasn’t broken her or turned her bitter. She retained her spunky, self-confident, flirty personality, despite her blindness. I totally adore her and hope she will turn up more often! ♥ I have to wonder though why they called a psychic to do a hypnosis session, that just didn’t make much sense to me, but because I love Pamela and am grateful that they brought her back, I will kindly overlook that bringing her in for that specific task was utterly random
In conclusion: I loved I Know What You Did Last Summer, but the two-parter as a whole fell short because of the deficits of Heaven And Hell for me. I struggled with the disappointment about the turn they took with Dean’s character arc, which isn’t entirely the fault of this week’s episode, but a general problem of this season, and Heaven And Hell just took the brunt of my frustration. While the episode had a lot of problems on its own, it is its position in the bigger picture that pushed it over the edge for me and resulted in a negative mindset for this episode.
I hope the upcoming hiatus allows me to sit back and gain a new perspective on the season and this episode in particular. See you all at January, 15th and enjoy the reruns!
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Yes.
Yes.
Do I need to say more than that?
You know, I watched the episode again last night, and just went through the exact same reactions. I started off enjoying the ride, wondering what I'd been so annoyed about...but then almost immediately my brain started tripping me up, yelling 'hang on, how does that actually work?' or 'but that doesn't make sense!' etc. And by the time I got to the last 10 minutes, once again all those niggles had mounted up until I just couldn't suspend disbelief any more, and it frustrates me.
But we already talked this through at length, and if I start again now we'll both just start ranting! So...moving on. *G*
Oh, I thought of something to add to out list of love. When Sam gets to Bobby's house with the Impala (how did the others get there then?) the first words out of Dean's mouth are 'is the car all right?' ♥
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I feel I need some distance from this episode, not unlike after Croatoan, where I thought they were about to destroy Dean's character but then they reigned it in again and look how the rest of the season turned out. So I hold out hope that the rest of the season gives me a new perspective.
Heh, I love that while Den just says 'how's the car' Sam answers that 'she' is fine. He totally took over Dean's habit of addressing her as a girl. Awww LOL Boys! ♥
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Awww, that is so cute! I didn't hear what Dean said--I thought he said, "Did you get the car?", but yeah, even Sam then is addressing Dean's baby properly now! ♥
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I also wanted some new stuff about Ruby or why and what is Dean supposed to do for saving the world.
Anyways on the other site you came up with some thing that wouldn't even cross my mind,so reading this was amazing summary for me.Will have to rewatch ep and then read your review again,but you really are open minded and seem to perceive every detail in epi^^
For me whole Dean story saved Jensen with his amazing performance in last ep.I believed him every his emotion and it was nicely portrayaled how he was disappointed in himself.Even scene with Anna which you mentioned showed a lot about his feeling about whole living.
Thanks for awesome review.Love to read that.
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Overall I just hope that my disappoinment with Dean's storyline doesn't have a negative impact on my love for the season in the long run. I guess I'll have to wait and see how they proceed.
Jensen did an awesome job! ♥ I just wished they had allowed him to pull back some layers of Dean's composure in the episodes that preceeded 'Heaven and Hell', but if it wasn't for Jensen's excellent acting, I certainly would feel even more detached.
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I love season 4 so far,althought there were two weaker eps for me.I still love it after last ep.I just hope that Kripke will continue with revealing some stuff from previous seasons and won't save it for next season.I wanna spn keek that way how it is.On that level.I'm proud of this show,because even if there might be some weak eps,still it was getting better and better with every season.Every season was great for some reasons.I hope he's gonna make something great from this season.WHole angel thing allows it,because it's interesting stuff.
Surely,Jensen saved it,because his acting was just "Wow".Because of him(and even teary Jared on the backgound) I was all teary as well.He greatly expressed how Dean is broken and so.It's really pity that they didn't go more into the depth.
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I adored S4 up and until episode 4.08 came along and then the suspicion snuck in that Dean's storyline will be completely different from what I expected (and needed) it to be. Fortunately I think my disappointment didn't mess with my love for the first couple of episodes. On a whole, my feelings will strongly depend on how this season proceeds. They can still make Dean's story more compelling. Let's wait and see ...
I totally cried during that last scene lol.
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Yeah,I think I can get over that as well.I loved for example In the beginning ep so much that I can forgive them.I hope that we get some depeer explanation later.Hope dies last,right ^^
It was impossible to go through that scene with dry eye,lol.
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Love this icon,btw :)
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Thank you! I love the scenery shots in the show! /sigh
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They might be ending on season 4?! That's horrible! Eric had a 5 year plan! *whines!* I thought I had another year left to cherish the last season premiere, and to enjoy the long build up to a fantastic ending. What if he ends it and they bring it back for season 5? It'd be horrible! I really wish they would give him the season 5, that way he could do things right like he had planned all along. That's a bit upsetting to me now.
January 15th seems SO far away! *pout* I literally screamed when that appeared on the screen. Stupid holidays! :( Ah anyways. I wont ramble anymore, I'll just get more upset. Lol.
I saw on here that you birthday is tomorrow! So I whipped up a little something for you. It's nothing speical, just letting you know I was thinking of you on you birthday! ^_^
http://i36.tinypic.com/2wfobwi.jpg
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Well, when this TV fall came around, the CW was on the verge of dying. Add to that the subpar ratings for S3 and it's no surprise that Kripke planned ahead, just in case there would be no 5th season. But now the CW seems more stable and the ratings for SN are through the roof, so there's no reason to believe that we won't get that 5th season. Kripke should be returning to his 5 year plan! :)
Aww thank you so much for thinking of me, hon. ♥ I LOVE the little present you made for me. The colours are very intense and beautiful, very fitting for our boys! ♥
*hugs*
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I do hope we get season 5 and that Eric goes back to his 5 year plan. The thought of the show ending at all just...GAH doesn't seem real. The ratings have been crazy good this season, and they've getting more attention so hopefully we'll get season 5. A quiet character episode, that would have been wonderful. Stupid CW messing things up. >
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I think it's dangerous to judge a story that isn't yet completed. Once we reach the end of this season I think we'll be in a better place to analyze what worked and what didn't. Right now, we're calling shots on a novel that we're only halfway through. I think we need to take a deep breath and wait before we cry foul.
I also think we need to a bit charitable -- Kripke and co. are in a tough, tough position. They're at the mercy of the network.. They have no control over how long they've got to tell this story. I don't think we fully appreciate the kind of tightrope showrunners like him walk. He is as invested in this story as we are. He wants to tell it as badly as we want it to be told. And I believe he's doing his level best, against some truly horrible odds. My fingers are crossed that they get a season 5 nod, early enough so he can rejig his storytelling plans. Otherwise we end up with a Babylon 5 situation, which wasn't ideal.
Finally, re Dean's situation? Until he admitted he remembered, I don't think we can have a full examination of the fallout from hell. If they'd kept on teasing his trauma without explaining his trauma, folks would have complained about the teasing without the payoff. Well, we've got the payoff, insofar as now we know what happened. And now we have the backhalf of the season to see just what damage it did.
Not that I'm trying to make you feel your criticisms are somehow invalid. I'm not saying it's a perfect ep. I think there are issues. But I think we need to lay them against the context of the full season.
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I am perfectly aware of that! Especially in this show because they never tell the story straight, but in twists and turns. Hindsight usually changes my outlook on a lot of episodes and on the dynamics of a season. I don't judge the story as a whole here, just the story as far as we got to see it. Dean admitted to remember hell in 4.08 and still there was no change in his characterisation and my worries spring from the impression that now that Dean made the story real by explaining it to Sam, there will still be no change. I worry too much about this, because the characters mean entirely too much to me. *g*
I was also unhappy that Dean's story was crammed into this busy episode where it deserved a quiet characer episode in my opinion. There is a lack of progression that leads up to Dean's confession in 4.10 and that annoys me, because they usually have a great sense of building a story up. If the 2nd half of the season shows a deterioration of Dean's self-confidence and ability to function, I will be happy, but I would still have the feeling that they tell the story backwards from a psychological point of view. :) I can totally live with that, but I would be really cross if there would be no tangible fallout at all.
You have to keep in mind, that I write these reviews out of the mood the episode created in me. If an episode elated me, my reviews are positive, if it annoyed me, I lean more towards a negative exploration. I want to capture what I thought/felt when the episode aired. My feelings can be totally different a couple of months later. :) Jo (Llywela) is a lot more cautious than I am and if she can't at least write neutrally, she will leave it alone until she can. I am more a spur of the moment kind of gal!
Kripke and co. are in a tough, tough position.
Oh, I know that and I constantly have that in mind and give them a lot of leeway for that. But not every bad move or faulty writing can be assigned to the network. I do take into consideration that Kripke a) tried to do something different with Dean here in order to not repeat his story development from the beginning of S2 and b) that he pushed the mytharc hard to not leave us hanging in case we get no S5, pushing plot over character. Much like JMS did in Babylon 5 S4, who needed to cram all resolutions into this one season and when they unexpectedly did get a S5 he didn't find his footing again until late in the season. Btw, I am a huge B5 fan and I still think it's one of the best mytharcs ever to see the tv screen!
If they'd kept on teasing his trauma without explaining his trauma, folks would have complained about the teasing without the payoff.
Hm, I don't think so, because that's what they usually do. They show us something is wrong, but only explain the how's and why's later in the season. It's what they did with the secret in S2 or Sam's character changes in S3. It's what I tend to call Supernatural's own brand of retroactive storytelling. You see, an event has consequences and they can't just show this consequences whenever they like. It's a hard sell to say, well, it didn't affect the character for the first couple of months and now it suddenly does, at least not if they want us to believe that Dean remembered the full extent of his torture right from the start.
It's very well possible that I change my interpretation when the 2nd half of the season is over, but at the moment they don't follow their usual direction and that throws me off and has me worrying. :)
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I'm a selective B5 fan. For me, the show was at its searing best over the Londo/G'kar arc. Those two, plus Vir, are probably my three favourite characters. I can skip chunks of the story in places, but never their arcs.
Well, if we accept that what's they usually do, then folk should be used to it by now and trust that the answers will be forthcoming. *g*
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The Londo/G'Kar arc is definitely my favourite part of the B5 story. Especially Londo is my favourite character. The show can be clunky at times, but overall I love it. If you're a fan of Vir, you should read Peter David's Centauri Trilogy, which has Vir more or less as the protagonist. Really recommendable read.
What I meant is that they usually show us that something is wrong, and they didn't do that this season, which is why I am so irritated. The answers came before there were any questions so to speak. *g* But I am willing to lean back and see where they'll lead us in the 2nd half of the season.
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Thanks for the recommendation. Probably B5 has my favourite payback moment in the history of tv -- Vir and Mr Morden. Just thinking about it makes me LMAO.
See, I don't mind that they're playing their cards close to their chest. Like I say, until I get to ep 22 and can view the season as a whole, like reading the whole book, I'm going to wait and see. I don't think I'm able to make an assessment yet. It's like tasting a cake halfway through its time in the oven. Judge the meal when it's served, that's my motto. *g* Which isn't to say that maybe the Dean/Hell/memory thread hasn't been handled as well as it could've been. Could be I'll stand back at the end of the season and slam its execution. I think part of the problem is that the story has become way, way more complicated -- there was such an elegant simplicity to the first couple of seasons, which gave them room for more leisurely storytelling. Now we have more characters, more myth, more consequences -- with the same amount of air time, less money, and more pressure. A lot more balls to juggle at once.
Going to be an interesting rest of the ride this time!
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Word! They would have probably done fine with the extention of the mytharc and characters if they hadn't been under the pressure to be able to end the story with the S4 finale. As I said, plot over characters, which was quite possibly forced by time issues. They have every possibility to pick up the character stuff in the 2nd half of the season and I hope they do, but yeah, I will always think Dean's hell story could have been handled better in these last couple of episodes. :)
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I am a little confused still about the Anna thin....did she fall because she disobeyed and while she was falling rip out her grace to become human? Or did she rip out her grace in order to fall and become human? :s And lol I thought of "Wings of Desire" as well when she mentioned walking among humans, invisible, although as we discussed last December I wasn't as fond of that film....:p
And yeah the D/A was cheesy and blah....although it was interesting to see the scene with Castiel and the kiss that I've heard sooo much about! :p
And I'm with you on the Dean thing, it doesn't make sense for him to have remembered everything all along....are we sure that this is the case, and that he didn't just remember a little at a time?
And finally:
It should be "which continues to fascinate me." :) You could use "keep" with the participle, like "it keeps fascinating me"....
So I'm curious, does this epp rank among your least favorites?
EDIT: Also wow, I didn't realize that Kripke intended this to be the last season, I thought he had a 5 season plan? Was he just betting in case of network cancelation? And do you think that the reason there have been so many funny/fandom related episodes in season 5 is because they pushed the mytharc so fast in season 4?
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God, I so hate the whole Anna story and the specifics of it are so corny, it makes me wanna puke. Anyway, Anna fell out of her own free will. Falling was her act of disobedience. Ripping out her grace made her human, as the grace is the angelic essence, so to speak. At what point exactly she 'ripped' it out is unclear though, and honestly I don't really wanna know.
are we sure that this is the case, and that he didn't just remember a little at a time
We aren't sure of anything really, because they really screwed that one up. Once you're finished with S4, you can read my meta analysis of the season, if you like, I go into the failures of Dean's post-hell arc in detail there. :) Ultimately, my personal take on it is that Dean did not remember from the start, but only regained his memories step-by-step and more forcefully after Yellow Fever.
Ooh, thank you for pointing that error out to me.
You betcha! Heaven and Hell is my 2nd least favourite episode of S4, and I still hate it fiercely. It's actually one of the few episodes of the whole show that I hate and not just dislike or am dissatisfied with.
Well, Kripke didn't intend it to be the last season, he just expected the network to cancel the show in/after S4, and so he tried to get as much of the story told as fast as possible, so he could finish the story if necessary. But around the winter hiatus it became clear that the ratings were through the roof, and they got an early pick-up for S5. Consequently, the 2nd half of S4 was at a much slower pace, with much better character exploration and a steady and consistent development. It really shows that they were under less pressure after 4.10.
Hm, that's a good question. No, I don't think so, because in the end they got to tell the story they wanted to tell in S4 after all. In my opinion that cursed streak of S5 episodes came about because
a) they wanted to make the show a bit more light-hearted after the intense bleakness that were the 2nd half of S4 and the beginning of S5.
b) they probably thought: 'Hey, it's the last season, let's just do any silly idea we ever wanted to try. If we don't do it now, we probably never will.'
c) the 2nd half of S5 will probably be quite angsty and apocalypsy again, so they wanted the fun stuff out of the way.
Although to be honest, I have no frakkin idea what went through the writers' heads at that point in S5. /sigh
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Oh, forgot, I am curious now, did you become a Dean/Castiel shipper already?
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So at most I only see a potential one-sided thing....not two-sided, even though in theory I think the idea is interesting! :) I think though that Merlin/Arthur for instance is a lot more obviously slashy than D/C....
I still look forward to seeing more interaction though between Castiel and both boys....and to seeing Castiel period! I want to see those awkward scenes like the flatbread line (which does not sound funny at all to me out of context!)...:p
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LOL okay. I, too, think Castiel cares about Dean more than about the average person, that's because Dean is his 'charge' and he feels responsible for what happens to him, especially in the later episodes. Romance, though. Never. Anna even says in HaH that angels are non-sexual beings. She had to become human to be able to have sex, so I really don't think that angels, who are incorporeal, define themselves as sexual, since that is related to being a physical creature. Castiel obviously has a history with Anna, he says as much, so Anna and Dean kissing is of course noteworthy for Castiel. I don't see any romantic notions in that at all, curiosity and surprise is more like it.
Anyway, I am happy you didn't become one of those hardcore D/C shippers. :)
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And that is true about Castiel's past with Anna, maybe he was weirded out by seeing his old boss making out with his charge....
Also the whole corporeal/incorporeal things raises another question--I don't think that Anna could have merely suddenly "existed" as a human after falling, because the canon doesn't seem to work that way--both Castiel and Uriel and other angels it appears need to possess a body (even though it's supposedly something the devout bodies asked for) to move around in the human world, it's not like in "Wings of Desire".....so as silly as it is, I think that Anna had to do the birth thing in order to have a body that was truly her own.....but then in that case what happens to that body when she becomes an angel again? And what happens to Castiel's body (Jimmy, right?) and Uriel's host when they are galavanting about in incorporeal form? Will they address all of this later?
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*snorts* Don't ask about the angel mythology in terms of human vessels, because it becomes completely convoluted over the short span of 1.5 seasons. You will hear a lot about the mechanics of human vessels and sadly the different information won't match up to a consistent pattern. I can tell you at least that Anna can get a body of her own choosing 'created'. *rolls eyes*
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I think the fact that he was able to hold out 30 years of torture beforehand makes it a little less horrible...and Anna was right I think that it really isn't his fault so much, that it's understandable he would have done it, given the circumstances....it's amazing he held out as long as he did!
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