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Review | 8x17 | Goodbye Stranger
Goodbye Stranger is a typical Robbie Thompson episode, i.e. it is well-structured, has great pacing and impresses with snappy dialogue and meaningful character moments. And given that it revolves entirely around angels and demons, which usually bores me out of my mind, it is surprisingly entertaining. So, on the whole, it is a good, solid episode. However, some of the parallels in Goodbye Stranger bothered me to such a degree, that it profoundly impacted my appreciation of the episode. As a result, I am a little more biased than usual in this review. Sorry for that!
Dean: "Sammy, I need you to be honest with me from here on out, man."
Sam: "You’re right. And I will be."
Dean: "Listen, I may not be able to carry the burden that comes along with these trials, but I can carry you."
Sam: "You realise you kinda just quoted Lord of the Rings."
Sam and Dean’s story in Goodbye Stranger continues their story from Remember The Titans, i.e. it addresses the brothers’ way of dealing with Sam’s failing health. Now, even though Sam made some efforts last week to open up to Dean about his doubts and fears, he is clearly not ready to talk about his illness yet, but he only does a half-hearted job of hiding it from his brother – openly disposing of a bloody tissue is just awfully sloppy on Sam’s part – and that suggests to me that, on some level, he wants to be found out. Dean at first indulges his little brother’s need for secrecy, which further reinforces my impression that, for once, Dean understands where Sam is coming from, but he is visibly worried, and the uncertainty about the extent of Sam’s condition sends Dean’s protective instincts into overdrive. I think that is the reason why the simple fact that Sam struggles to subdue a demon during a fight unsettles Dean to such a degree that he insists on leaving Sam behind with Meg, when they are about to walk into a potentially dangerous situation at Lucifer’s crypt. I mean, let’s face it. It is not the first time that a demon got the upper hand on either of the brothers, so Dean’s reaction to the incident is clearly disproportionate. However, it is maybe even more surprising that Sam complies with Dean’s request, under protest, but still. He usually hates to be treated as anything less than an equal partner to Dean, so his compliance could be read as an indirect concession of his weakness. I am really curious to see if and how Sam’s physical limitations will impact the brothers’ teamwork in the next couple of weeks. Here, they had backup in form of Meg and Castiel, but what will happen when Sam and Dean work a case on their own?
Anyway, the final conversation between the brothers, where Dean finally runs out of patience and asks Sam to just be honest with him, is by far my favourite scene of the episode. I love particularly that there is no drama, no anger or resentment, just a mature conversation between two adults who come to an easy understanding. Dean simply expresses how tired he is of being lied to by the people close to him and Sam apologises and comes clean without hesitation. It is all rather heart-warming. ♥ I find it particularly interesting that Sam admits that he not only lied to protect Dean from the truth, but also himself. As long as Dean was not in the know, Sam could pretend that he is okay, that he can work around his illness, like he did with his hallucinations in S7. Back then, he was able to find coping mechanisms that allowed him to stay on top of his game for a long time, but this time he is unable to just will his body into cooperation, and that is scary for someone like Sam, who needs to be in control of himself at all times. It is sadly ironic that, ultimately, the very choice that was supposed to give Sam some measure of control about his and Dean’s future resulted in an utter loss thereof. However, that is where Dean’s reassurance that even though he cannot carry the burden of the trials, he can carry Sam, comes into play. Because, in the end, it turns out that closing the gates of hell is a two-man job after all, and I love the prospect of Sam and Dean once again achieving together what a single soul could not. ♥ Overall, I am happy that we will see the brothers work through this on their own and that the writers refrained from using Castiel as an easy fix to the situation, like they did in The Born-Again Identity.
Dean: "Cas, I know that you’re in there. I know you can hear me. Cas, it’s me. We’re family. We need you. I need you."
It does not happen often that a scene triggers such a visceral response in me that it makes me physically ill, but the confrontation between Dean and Castiel in Lucifer’s crypt is one of those scenes. Usually, if something upsets me in the show, I let a couple of days go by to calm down and then look at the offending material with an analytical mind, but here we are, days later, and I am still angry, so rational analysis is obviously not going to happen this time. I apologise in advance that this section is more or less a rant and has little to do with Castiel’s actual story in the episode. Now, it is no secret that I am not a huge fan of Castiel. At best I find him amusing, at worst he irritates me, but most of the time I am just indifferent to the character. Still, I always make an effort to do him some justice and try to ignore the things that bother me about the writers’ treatment of Castiel. I mean, I turn a blind eye to the annoying Dean/Castiel fanservice. I put up with the fact that Castiel’s presence in an episode cuts down on Sam’s screentime and limits meaningful interaction between the brothers. I take it calmly that the Sam-Castiel relationship remains unexplored, even though their interaction makes much more sense to me than the hyped-up relationship between Dean and Castiel, which I feel is more about telling than showing anyway. I (barely) tolerate the writers’ tendency to just handwave Castiel’s wrongdoings because they cannot be bothered to actually follow through on his storylines. I even accept that, instead of writing original storylines for Castiel, the writers just take Sam’s storylines, tweak them and then apply them to Castiel, as if that will automatically make his journey as compelling.
However, I have to draw the line at something – and Dean and Castiel’s 're-enactment' of the crucial moment between Sam and Dean in Swan Song is most certainly that line. See, I do not have a problem with the fact that Castiel breaks Naomi’s hold over him; there have been other instances in the show where someone overcame a possession/mind-control because Dean’s life was on the line – like John in Devil’s Trap or Bobby in Sympathy For The Devil – so it is not an uncommon occurrence. But the setup, direction and sentiment of the scene between Castiel and Dean are clearly designed to mirror Swan Song in particular, and that intentional parallel infuriates me. The writers could have chosen any number of ways to construct the characters’ confrontation here, to make it something uniquely fitting to Dean and Castiel’s relationship, but instead they decided to use one of the most meaningful Sam and Dean scenes in the show as a template, as if the characters in said scene are simply interchangeable, and I find that extremely offensive. The cemetery scene between Sam and Dean in Swan Song is one of my favourite brotherly moments in the entire show; it is one of their most important moments, too. It is the culmination of a carefully constructed five-year long arc, a hard-earned payoff to their lifelong mutual journey, and I resent the fact that the writers think the relatively poorly written/developed relationship between Dean and Castiel can even begin to compare to Sam and Dean’s bond as depicted in Swan Song. The relationship between Castiel and Dean just does not have the same weight and depth, not by a long shot.
Of course, it does not help that the crypt scene is exactly the kind of scene that tells us what Dean and Castiel’s relationship is supposed to be, something I feel the writers never actually show us onscreen. Dean desperately pleading with Castiel and telling the angel that he needs him simply does not ring true for me. I mean, Castiel often vanishes for weeks at a time, and whenever he is off doing his own thing, Dean rarely ever mentions him, let alone express a desire for the angel’s company just for the sake of companionship. Dean only ever seems to think of Castiel when he wants the angel to do something for him, like heal/protect someone, make time-travel available to him, provide him with information or give him a tactical advantage. Moreover, when Castiel 'died' in Hello, Cruel World, there was hardly any reaction from Dean at all, especially compared to his response to Sam’s death or even John and Bobby’s death. All this undercuts moments where Dean expresses his kinship with Castiel, because without tangible evidence to back Dean’s assurance of friendship up, it remains nothing but empty words. It really comes off as an attempt on the writers’ part to force a certain reading of their relationship, even though they do little to support it. All in all, between this particular scene in Goodbye Stranger and the lack of an active reconciliation process between the characters at the beginning of the season, the writers squandered the last goodwill on my part where Dean and Castiel’s relationship is concerned.
Having said all that, I do like the general direction of Castiel’s story in this episode. I like especially the way it contrasts his story at the end of S4. I mean, back then, Zachariah was also displeased with the angel’s fondness for his human charge and his habit to defy angelic orders to the benefit of the human. And, just like Naomi, Zachariah made an effort to re-indoctrinate Castiel – and it was a resounding success. Castiel distanced himself from Dean and betrayed the brothers on behalf of his superiors by letting Sam out of the panic room, thus facilitating the apocalypse. But this time heaven’s intervention does not work. Even though Naomi’s re-indoctrination method seems to yield the desired result, i.e. to harden Castiel against Dean’s influence by forcing him to kill Dean over and over again – by the way, that shot of dozens of dead Deans was truly disturbing – Castiel ultimately not only resists her orders, but also deliberately turns away from heaven. And given how hard he struggled with his repudiation from heaven in S5, his decision here shows courage. Moreover, he turns away from Dean as well, and I really like that. I mean, these past couple of years Castiel frequently tried to rely on Dean as his default guideline on how to act outside of his angelic directives, and usually with very poor results. By becoming the guardian of the angel tablet and going his own way, however, Castiel finally grows independent from Dean’s judgement, and that can only benefit his character development. So, whatever his reasons for keeping the tablet out of Dean’s reach – I assume he either takes it to prevent Dean from closing the gates of heaven or to protect the brothers from Naomi’s wrath/attempt to recover the tablet – I like that it gives him a purpose that is uniquely his own.
What else is noteworthy:
(1) Goodbye Stranger is Meg’s swan song, and even though I was never overly fond of her, I am sad about the fact that the last recurring character from S1 is gone now, especially since this is the first episode since Born Under A Bad Sign where I truly enjoyed Meg’s story. Now, Meg has never been a particularly sympathetic character, but for all the grief she has caused Sam and Dean, she has always been consistent. All her actions – from her role as a soldier in Azazel’s army, to her support of Lucifer, to her antagonism with Crowley – have been driven by a deep hatred for hell, and I like that she acknowledges the irony of the fact that it put her on the side of good more than once, thus blurring the lines between good and evil for her. And the fact that, ultimately, she sacrifices her own life to secure Sam, Dean and Castiel’s escape, resonates with her realisation that there are no moral absolutes in her world anymore. I also quite like Meg’s conversation with Sam, particularly her somewhat mocking comments on Sam and Amelia’s 'romance'. In that context, I have to admit that, even though I am happy that Meg finally mentions her possession of Sam from Born Under A Bad Sign, I am not quite sure I like the possible implications of the resulting exchange between her and Sam. I mean, I have no doubt that Meg is truthful when she reminds Sam that she felt his longing for a normal life, and it makes perfect sense, too, because at the time Sam felt the full burden of his destiny and wanted nothing more than to be free of it. But I do not think the same applies to present-day Sam. Personally, I feel that Sam found fulfilment in his heritage as a Man of Letters, and quite frankly, I do not appreciate the writers’ attempts to undermine that deeply satisfying development in Sam’s arc.
(2) I admit, I am rather puzzled by Naomi and Crowley’s short conversation. So, they know each other from Mesopotamia? How is that possible, if Crowley’s human persona Fergus MacLeod died in the 17th century, as we have learned in Weekend At Bobby’s? I mean, as far as I am aware, Mesopotamia traditionally refers to the land between Euphrates and Tigris around 6000 to 600 before Christ, so Crowley could hardly have roamed the earth back then. This odd conversation, in addition to Crowley’s smug statement in What’s Up, Tiger Mommy that Linda Tran never told Kevin the truth about his father – I always suspected he might refer to himself, and considering that Kevin is a prophet, it would suggest angelic involvement – really gives me the impression that the writers are going to pull the same stupid stunt with Crowley they already pulled with the Trickster, namely retconning him into an angel, a fallen one in this case, one that apparently fathered children. So, Crowley’s persona in the 17th century would simply have been a poor possessed soul, passing as a human. I would really hate for the writers to go down this route, not least because it would result in consistency issues, again. They have introduced way too many retcons over the years already. If they want the story to go in a certain direction, they should just introduce new characters, instead of retconning well-established ones into oblivion.
In conclusion: Goodbye Stranger is a well-written episode that not only moves Sam and Dean’s story forward in a hopeful manner, but also presents a crucial turn in Castiel’s arc this season. Unfortunately, my emotions got the better of me, though, thus limiting my enjoyment of the episode, and I regret that, because I really appreciate Robbie Thompson’s work on Supernatural. Again, I apologise for the somewhat rant-y quality of this review. I promise, next week I will be back on track.
Dean: "Sammy, I need you to be honest with me from here on out, man."
Sam: "You’re right. And I will be."
Dean: "Listen, I may not be able to carry the burden that comes along with these trials, but I can carry you."
Sam: "You realise you kinda just quoted Lord of the Rings."
Sam and Dean’s story in Goodbye Stranger continues their story from Remember The Titans, i.e. it addresses the brothers’ way of dealing with Sam’s failing health. Now, even though Sam made some efforts last week to open up to Dean about his doubts and fears, he is clearly not ready to talk about his illness yet, but he only does a half-hearted job of hiding it from his brother – openly disposing of a bloody tissue is just awfully sloppy on Sam’s part – and that suggests to me that, on some level, he wants to be found out. Dean at first indulges his little brother’s need for secrecy, which further reinforces my impression that, for once, Dean understands where Sam is coming from, but he is visibly worried, and the uncertainty about the extent of Sam’s condition sends Dean’s protective instincts into overdrive. I think that is the reason why the simple fact that Sam struggles to subdue a demon during a fight unsettles Dean to such a degree that he insists on leaving Sam behind with Meg, when they are about to walk into a potentially dangerous situation at Lucifer’s crypt. I mean, let’s face it. It is not the first time that a demon got the upper hand on either of the brothers, so Dean’s reaction to the incident is clearly disproportionate. However, it is maybe even more surprising that Sam complies with Dean’s request, under protest, but still. He usually hates to be treated as anything less than an equal partner to Dean, so his compliance could be read as an indirect concession of his weakness. I am really curious to see if and how Sam’s physical limitations will impact the brothers’ teamwork in the next couple of weeks. Here, they had backup in form of Meg and Castiel, but what will happen when Sam and Dean work a case on their own?
Anyway, the final conversation between the brothers, where Dean finally runs out of patience and asks Sam to just be honest with him, is by far my favourite scene of the episode. I love particularly that there is no drama, no anger or resentment, just a mature conversation between two adults who come to an easy understanding. Dean simply expresses how tired he is of being lied to by the people close to him and Sam apologises and comes clean without hesitation. It is all rather heart-warming. ♥ I find it particularly interesting that Sam admits that he not only lied to protect Dean from the truth, but also himself. As long as Dean was not in the know, Sam could pretend that he is okay, that he can work around his illness, like he did with his hallucinations in S7. Back then, he was able to find coping mechanisms that allowed him to stay on top of his game for a long time, but this time he is unable to just will his body into cooperation, and that is scary for someone like Sam, who needs to be in control of himself at all times. It is sadly ironic that, ultimately, the very choice that was supposed to give Sam some measure of control about his and Dean’s future resulted in an utter loss thereof. However, that is where Dean’s reassurance that even though he cannot carry the burden of the trials, he can carry Sam, comes into play. Because, in the end, it turns out that closing the gates of hell is a two-man job after all, and I love the prospect of Sam and Dean once again achieving together what a single soul could not. ♥ Overall, I am happy that we will see the brothers work through this on their own and that the writers refrained from using Castiel as an easy fix to the situation, like they did in The Born-Again Identity.
Dean: "Cas, I know that you’re in there. I know you can hear me. Cas, it’s me. We’re family. We need you. I need you."
It does not happen often that a scene triggers such a visceral response in me that it makes me physically ill, but the confrontation between Dean and Castiel in Lucifer’s crypt is one of those scenes. Usually, if something upsets me in the show, I let a couple of days go by to calm down and then look at the offending material with an analytical mind, but here we are, days later, and I am still angry, so rational analysis is obviously not going to happen this time. I apologise in advance that this section is more or less a rant and has little to do with Castiel’s actual story in the episode. Now, it is no secret that I am not a huge fan of Castiel. At best I find him amusing, at worst he irritates me, but most of the time I am just indifferent to the character. Still, I always make an effort to do him some justice and try to ignore the things that bother me about the writers’ treatment of Castiel. I mean, I turn a blind eye to the annoying Dean/Castiel fanservice. I put up with the fact that Castiel’s presence in an episode cuts down on Sam’s screentime and limits meaningful interaction between the brothers. I take it calmly that the Sam-Castiel relationship remains unexplored, even though their interaction makes much more sense to me than the hyped-up relationship between Dean and Castiel, which I feel is more about telling than showing anyway. I (barely) tolerate the writers’ tendency to just handwave Castiel’s wrongdoings because they cannot be bothered to actually follow through on his storylines. I even accept that, instead of writing original storylines for Castiel, the writers just take Sam’s storylines, tweak them and then apply them to Castiel, as if that will automatically make his journey as compelling.
However, I have to draw the line at something – and Dean and Castiel’s 're-enactment' of the crucial moment between Sam and Dean in Swan Song is most certainly that line. See, I do not have a problem with the fact that Castiel breaks Naomi’s hold over him; there have been other instances in the show where someone overcame a possession/mind-control because Dean’s life was on the line – like John in Devil’s Trap or Bobby in Sympathy For The Devil – so it is not an uncommon occurrence. But the setup, direction and sentiment of the scene between Castiel and Dean are clearly designed to mirror Swan Song in particular, and that intentional parallel infuriates me. The writers could have chosen any number of ways to construct the characters’ confrontation here, to make it something uniquely fitting to Dean and Castiel’s relationship, but instead they decided to use one of the most meaningful Sam and Dean scenes in the show as a template, as if the characters in said scene are simply interchangeable, and I find that extremely offensive. The cemetery scene between Sam and Dean in Swan Song is one of my favourite brotherly moments in the entire show; it is one of their most important moments, too. It is the culmination of a carefully constructed five-year long arc, a hard-earned payoff to their lifelong mutual journey, and I resent the fact that the writers think the relatively poorly written/developed relationship between Dean and Castiel can even begin to compare to Sam and Dean’s bond as depicted in Swan Song. The relationship between Castiel and Dean just does not have the same weight and depth, not by a long shot.
Of course, it does not help that the crypt scene is exactly the kind of scene that tells us what Dean and Castiel’s relationship is supposed to be, something I feel the writers never actually show us onscreen. Dean desperately pleading with Castiel and telling the angel that he needs him simply does not ring true for me. I mean, Castiel often vanishes for weeks at a time, and whenever he is off doing his own thing, Dean rarely ever mentions him, let alone express a desire for the angel’s company just for the sake of companionship. Dean only ever seems to think of Castiel when he wants the angel to do something for him, like heal/protect someone, make time-travel available to him, provide him with information or give him a tactical advantage. Moreover, when Castiel 'died' in Hello, Cruel World, there was hardly any reaction from Dean at all, especially compared to his response to Sam’s death or even John and Bobby’s death. All this undercuts moments where Dean expresses his kinship with Castiel, because without tangible evidence to back Dean’s assurance of friendship up, it remains nothing but empty words. It really comes off as an attempt on the writers’ part to force a certain reading of their relationship, even though they do little to support it. All in all, between this particular scene in Goodbye Stranger and the lack of an active reconciliation process between the characters at the beginning of the season, the writers squandered the last goodwill on my part where Dean and Castiel’s relationship is concerned.
Having said all that, I do like the general direction of Castiel’s story in this episode. I like especially the way it contrasts his story at the end of S4. I mean, back then, Zachariah was also displeased with the angel’s fondness for his human charge and his habit to defy angelic orders to the benefit of the human. And, just like Naomi, Zachariah made an effort to re-indoctrinate Castiel – and it was a resounding success. Castiel distanced himself from Dean and betrayed the brothers on behalf of his superiors by letting Sam out of the panic room, thus facilitating the apocalypse. But this time heaven’s intervention does not work. Even though Naomi’s re-indoctrination method seems to yield the desired result, i.e. to harden Castiel against Dean’s influence by forcing him to kill Dean over and over again – by the way, that shot of dozens of dead Deans was truly disturbing – Castiel ultimately not only resists her orders, but also deliberately turns away from heaven. And given how hard he struggled with his repudiation from heaven in S5, his decision here shows courage. Moreover, he turns away from Dean as well, and I really like that. I mean, these past couple of years Castiel frequently tried to rely on Dean as his default guideline on how to act outside of his angelic directives, and usually with very poor results. By becoming the guardian of the angel tablet and going his own way, however, Castiel finally grows independent from Dean’s judgement, and that can only benefit his character development. So, whatever his reasons for keeping the tablet out of Dean’s reach – I assume he either takes it to prevent Dean from closing the gates of heaven or to protect the brothers from Naomi’s wrath/attempt to recover the tablet – I like that it gives him a purpose that is uniquely his own.
What else is noteworthy:
(1) Goodbye Stranger is Meg’s swan song, and even though I was never overly fond of her, I am sad about the fact that the last recurring character from S1 is gone now, especially since this is the first episode since Born Under A Bad Sign where I truly enjoyed Meg’s story. Now, Meg has never been a particularly sympathetic character, but for all the grief she has caused Sam and Dean, she has always been consistent. All her actions – from her role as a soldier in Azazel’s army, to her support of Lucifer, to her antagonism with Crowley – have been driven by a deep hatred for hell, and I like that she acknowledges the irony of the fact that it put her on the side of good more than once, thus blurring the lines between good and evil for her. And the fact that, ultimately, she sacrifices her own life to secure Sam, Dean and Castiel’s escape, resonates with her realisation that there are no moral absolutes in her world anymore. I also quite like Meg’s conversation with Sam, particularly her somewhat mocking comments on Sam and Amelia’s 'romance'. In that context, I have to admit that, even though I am happy that Meg finally mentions her possession of Sam from Born Under A Bad Sign, I am not quite sure I like the possible implications of the resulting exchange between her and Sam. I mean, I have no doubt that Meg is truthful when she reminds Sam that she felt his longing for a normal life, and it makes perfect sense, too, because at the time Sam felt the full burden of his destiny and wanted nothing more than to be free of it. But I do not think the same applies to present-day Sam. Personally, I feel that Sam found fulfilment in his heritage as a Man of Letters, and quite frankly, I do not appreciate the writers’ attempts to undermine that deeply satisfying development in Sam’s arc.
(2) I admit, I am rather puzzled by Naomi and Crowley’s short conversation. So, they know each other from Mesopotamia? How is that possible, if Crowley’s human persona Fergus MacLeod died in the 17th century, as we have learned in Weekend At Bobby’s? I mean, as far as I am aware, Mesopotamia traditionally refers to the land between Euphrates and Tigris around 6000 to 600 before Christ, so Crowley could hardly have roamed the earth back then. This odd conversation, in addition to Crowley’s smug statement in What’s Up, Tiger Mommy that Linda Tran never told Kevin the truth about his father – I always suspected he might refer to himself, and considering that Kevin is a prophet, it would suggest angelic involvement – really gives me the impression that the writers are going to pull the same stupid stunt with Crowley they already pulled with the Trickster, namely retconning him into an angel, a fallen one in this case, one that apparently fathered children. So, Crowley’s persona in the 17th century would simply have been a poor possessed soul, passing as a human. I would really hate for the writers to go down this route, not least because it would result in consistency issues, again. They have introduced way too many retcons over the years already. If they want the story to go in a certain direction, they should just introduce new characters, instead of retconning well-established ones into oblivion.
In conclusion: Goodbye Stranger is a well-written episode that not only moves Sam and Dean’s story forward in a hopeful manner, but also presents a crucial turn in Castiel’s arc this season. Unfortunately, my emotions got the better of me, though, thus limiting my enjoyment of the episode, and I regret that, because I really appreciate Robbie Thompson’s work on Supernatural. Again, I apologise for the somewhat rant-y quality of this review. I promise, next week I will be back on track.
no subject
I'm always worried about my response to Dean and Cas scenes because of how I feel about the ship. I couldn't give two hoots if people ship them, that's the joy of fandom, but when the show picks up on that and tries to sail the ship, that's when I get prickly. That scene actually had me getting up from my couch to get a drink and wait until it was over because I felt uncomfortable. I put it down to the whole Cas/Dean thing but in fact it's exactly about what you've said here.
It makes no sense that Dean pleads his "I need you" when we see him getting along perfectly well without him. But more that than - I felt like it was so un-Dean like to beg for his life in that manner. I figure he was trying to get through to Cas but it just made me bristle. I think the lack of consistency in their relationship over the seasons has made it particularly difficult to believe in this amazing friendship. I have no issue if they want to show us that, but they seem to find that very difficult. I believed more in Dean and Benny in a few eps than I have done in Dean and Cas. (hee...makes me think of all the Teen Wolf Stiles and Derek stuff out there when those two hardly share the screen together).
Aaaanyway. I think it was also the shout out to Swan Song. I admit I didn't immediately connect it to that scene when I was watching it (I was cringing too much), but looking back (and yes, I have watched it again) I can totally see it. The other problem with that scene is that Cas could have easily just taken the tablet once it was out of the box. He's and angel after all. Instead we had all that angsting just for the sake of giving us that "moment".
*yikes* looks like I still have some thoughts about that. I've largely tried to move on because I like the way it ended - with Cas going his own way and seemingly having a purpose again. The final scene in the car with the boys was also wonderful.
I'm thinking there is some Crowley retconning going on here. Apparently Robbie researched for the episode (using the Wiki) so he would know Crowley's history. I think there has been enough inconsistency with Crowley this season that your thoughts here might just be on track. I can't get a handle on him at all. I've never liked him much so I tend to not pay too much attention. I almost want there to be another layer to him, just to give him more substance. Though I have no idea why they haven't killed him off and given us another character if they wanted a fallen angel in the mix.
no subject
I hear you. I am always worried, too. Usually it works out okay, though. Most Dean-Cas scenes I can take or leave, they just breeze by. However, when the writers suddenly inject this overdrawn pathos into their interaction I feel angry/incredulous. I mean, unlike with similar scenes between Sam and Dean, there is just nothing in canon that carries scenes like that between Dean and Castiel. And I am frustrated that the writers don't see that.
I believed more in Dean and Benny in a few eps than I have done in Dean and Cas.
I think in the case of Dean-Benny it actually helps that we have no background information. Dean tells us that Benny is his friend and we have to believe him, because we have no evidence to the contrary. With Dean and Cas, however, there is a lot of history for us to deal with and some of that history just stands in the way of emphatic assurances of friendship.
The other problem with that scene is that Cas could have easily just taken the tablet once it was out of the box. He's and angel after all. Instead we had all that angsting just for the sake of giving us that "moment".
OMG this is so true. I thought 'why doesn't he just pick the damn thing up and leaves'. /sigh
Apparently Robbie researched for the episode (using the Wiki) so he would know Crowley's history.
I didn't know that. Why on earth doesn't he just watch the episodes? I love the SuperWiki, but you won't get an accurate impression of a character, if you just read up on them. I really hope they will refrain from any more retconning. Making Crowley a fallen angel would result in so many inconsistiencies. The fact alone that angels, fallen or not, need consent for a possession, and Crowley clearly didn't need it when he possessed Linda Tran.
no subject
In some ways, actually, the SS shoutout sort of emphasizes the degree to which Dean tends to use his friendship with Cas in a way that undermines its mutuality. In Swan Song Dean wasn't trying to stop Samifer from killing him, he wasn't even trying to get through to Sam with a view to preventing apocalyptic disaster. He was explicitly there simply so that Sam wouldn't die alone, and that was what he promised Sam and how he got through. I don't object to Dean trying to stay alive and stop bad things happening by making emotional appeals to Cas (as he did in 6.22 as well). In fact, I like to see Dean in a healthy enough place to have an urge for self-preservation. But it doesn't work for me as an act of pure love.
While I'm not 100% happy about the presentation of Sam and normal (I think it shows that while Thomspon is a good writer, he's not a writer with a long, deep history on Spn -- sometimes it feels more like he knows things about the characters than like he knows the characters) I think the writing of that scene showed more subtlety than some reactions I've seen have credited it with. It's interesting that the "unicorn who carried Sam away from hunting" stuff is coming from Meg, not Sam, and that it is made clear how large an element of projection Meg has going on there. What Sam himself said was much more cautious and modest -- that his time with Amelia made him realize that normal was possible for him. I'd certainly much, much rather, both for characterization and narrative, see them exploring Sam as Man of Letters and exploding the normal/hunting dichotomy rather than doing "Sam eventually wants normal but will keep postponing for the demands of hunting." But I can also believe that Sam needed to know that normal wasn't an impossible unicorn daydream but a workable possibility for him before he could set about a positive assessment of what he wants and how he can live it.
I, too, really liked the maturity and lack of drama in their last conversation, and that Sam had enough self-knowledge to admit that he was trying to keep the truth from himself as much as Dean. I like how tired Dean is of being lied to because it's a believably imperfect view of the situation -- understandable in the immediate context, but not discontinuous with his tendency in Southern Comfort to see himself as the victim of other people's lies while seeing his own iterations of the same pattern of dishonesty as individual contingencies or mistakes but not inherently a betrayal.
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I think what pushed the scene over the edge for me is precisely the fact that Dean does not fight back at all. He doesn't defend himself when Castiel starts to beat on him, just like he didn't with Samifer, so Dean's underlying motivation may have been different, but visually it was just too close for comfort for me. And I remember that I was uncomfortable with that Dean-Cas moment in 6.22 as well, mainly because when he told Castiel that he doesn't want to lose him like he did Sam, Lisa and Ben, he basically ignored that Cas was directly responsible for said losses and that just made that whole moment a farce IMO. The writers often just overdo it in these kinds of Dean-Cas moments, it's too forced to come off as believable.
I think the writing of that scene showed more subtlety than some reactions I've seen have credited it with. It's interesting that the "unicorn who carried Sam away from hunting" stuff is coming from Meg, not Sam, and that it is made clear how large an element of projection Meg has going on there. What Sam himself said was much more cautious and modest
You know, this is one of those scenes where I keenly feel my loss of trust in the writers. Normally, I would just focus on Sam's moderate reaction to Meg's questions, because I did like that Sam showed no actual signs of agreeing with her assessment. But while I was watching I was asking myself: Of all the things Sam and Meg could be talking about, that is what they choose? Why? It made me question the writers' motivation to address this specific topic between them, even though they had already finished that chapter of Sam's story. The fact that they brought Amelia and a normal life up again simply made me suspicious.
(...) his tendency in Southern Comfort to see himself as the victim of other people's lies while seeing his own iterations of the same pattern of dishonesty as individual contingencies or mistakes but not inherently a betrayal
I couldn't agree more. Well put!
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Nearly everything in this episode felt pretty contrived to me, tbh, from that confrontation to Meg's ~love story with Cas, etc (also I couldn't help but roll my eyes at Sam's bloody noses being this HUGE BAD SIGN given I get bloody noses all the time when the air is simply too dry--I sure hope Dean never looks into MY garbage can! It's not really a big deal). I have never been a fan of Meg (except when she was possessing Sam), and I found her as irritating and insufferable as ever in this episode (lol @ her ~outrage that Sam didn't try to find her). Maybe that colored my lack of appreciation of this episode too (it just goes to show how much I liked everything else in TBAI that I still loved that episode despite her presence, lol!).
I agree about the lack of development and forced nature of D/C, and that S/C interaction makes more sense. I can't help but feel that the emphasis on D/C is because of fan service, like you said.
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Oh, by the way, Sam doesn't get nosebleeds, he coughs up blood, so I think that is a really bad sign and gives indeed cause for concern. And since Dean didn't know what else Sam might be hiding, I think he has every reason to be worried. ;)
Yeah, it can put a pretty big damper on my enjoyment of an episode, too, when a character I loathe takes up the majority of it. Luckily, I don't hate Meg that much. Usually I can take her or leave her, as long as she doesn't interfere with Sam&Dean stuff, I am good. However, I think I would appreciate the character a lot more if she wasn't played by Rachel Miner. I just cannot stand her acting.
I'd really wished the writers would explore Sam-Castiel more. I am growing so tired of the way Sam is excluded from the interaction with the recurring characters. :(
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The ending was definitely the high point of the episode, and makes a nice contrast to the pointless sniping in the first half of the season. I can't say I entirely understand how the characters got there - unless I mentally edit out huge portions of season eight and view it as a continuation of their previous development - but in itself it makes a very satisfying storyline.
It has a nice sense of balance - that each in turn must convince the other that this is survivable, and that they can do this. I always like it best when they save each other. :)
But the setup, direction and sentiment of the scene between Castiel and Dean are clearly designed to mirror Swan Song in particular, and that intentional parallel infuriates me.
Yeah. I did not like that at all. It's bad enough, as you say, that they just copy-paste Sam's storylines onto Castiel - but you can't take the climax of a five-season arc, with all its emotional implications, and drop it into a random scene in the middle of a season without expecting me to feel as though my intelligence is being insulted. I mean - really? How could they not see how cheap that is?
I do recognise that they are doing somewhat better with Castiel these days, but this crutch they keep falling back on is awful. I think the only way I could find him at all tolerable in the future is if he reappears only as an antagonist. Not an 'he's crazy so it's not his fault' antagonist, but the 'we are on opposite sides for what we regard as good reasons and it's very sad but that's the way it has to be' kind.
I like that she acknowledges the irony of the fact that it put her on the side of good more than once, thus blurring the lines between good and evil for her.
I feel Meg's loss keenly, particularly in relation to the Crowley stuff, because she always struck me as a nuanced and interesting antagonist. I always felt as though she thought she had good reasons for what she did. That doesn't mean I agree with her actions, but I always got the sense that she was a person with understandable goals and even her own brand of ethics. I used to get the same sense from Crowley, but not anymore.
Another thing that bugs me about the Swan Song remake is that, well, this is Meg's farewell. And the story touched on her relationship with Castiel - a relationship that I could find a hell of a lot more understandable than the one between Dean and Castiel if they'd stopped playing it as a joke about Castiel's sexual naivety, because the characters come from the same morally grey, confused place - largely as a 'what might have been'. Why on earth not let Meg step in and save Castiel? A parallel that has two characters 'being' Sam and Dean is far less offensive than Castiel just nicking Sam's spot, and it has been used effectively before. It would have had to be structured differently, of course, but they could have done something there that was poignant instead of insulting.
So, they know each other from Mesopotamia? How is that possible, if Crowley’s human persona Fergus MacLeod died in the 17th century, as we have learned in Weekend At Bobby’s?
I'm pretty sure this is going to upset me. It's not that I'm particularly enamoured of Crowley - I like him when he's well used, but he hasn't been for a while. It's just that it highlights one of the problems I've had with this whole season: the villains don't know what they want. Azazel made sense. Michael and Lucifer made sense. Eve made sense. The leviathans made sense, and I disliked that plot. Crowley's actions make no sense given what we know about him. So now, at the tail end of the season, they're going to slap a retcon on it and call it fixed? No.
It also makes me feel that they're mistaking grandiose for good. The idea that the king of hell is a tailor who fell for a silly crossroads deal is sad and interesting. He wasn't always what he is now, but you can imagine how he got here from there. But a Crowley who has been stalking the earth in his evilness for millennia is ... not interesting. At all.
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Yeah, basically the writers ignored what they have done with Sam and Dean in the first half of the season and returned them to their late S7 dynamic, not unlike they did with Dean and Castiel. LARP and The Real Girl kind of builds a bridge between the two halves where the character dynamic is concerned, but technically it is not enough to just explain their early season differences away.
How could they not see how cheap that is?
Yeah, I don't know either. I always feel totally estranged from what's happening on my screen, when the writers suddenly inject this kind of overdrawn pathos into scenes between Dean and Castiel. It works for Sam and Dean, because there is a rich texture that carries those scenes, which is just not there for Dean and Castiel, and hence it all falls flat.
A parallel that has two characters 'being' Sam and Dean is far less offensive than Castiel just nicking Sam's spot
You know, I have no particular feelings about 'Megstiel' other than a slight befuddlement about why the writers have to add this kind of 'romantic/sexual' subplots for Castiel, like his (never to be mentioned again) wife in 7x17 or his sudden sexual attraction to Meg. It doesn't really add any interesting layers to the character for me. But then I read your analysis of Castiel and Meg as mirrors to Sam and Dean and I instantly got the appeal of that perspective. I wished the writers had your brain!
I'm pretty sure this is going to upset me.
Yeah, me too. I actually was pretty enamoured with Crowley for a while, but in S8 he just has become this one-dimensional character, whose actions make no sense and who only seems to be the big antagonist of the season because he is popular in fandom. The writers really have no sense for when a storyline/character has run its natural course.
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About the moment between Dean and Castiel, I surprinsingly didn't see the parallel between it and Swan Song, but I found that moment kind of awkward, probably for the reasons you stated - it doesn't feel earned. i think they pushed too hard in this episode.
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Ah, you're lucky that you didn't see it. LOL Usually I am fine with the scenes between Castiel and Dean, but this one had the kind of overdrawn pathos that feels completely awkward for them.